Friday, November 13, 2009

hui a tau questions

Kia ora koutou - questions that you would like answered at hui a tau. Please no personal attacks, go there in person for that.


Anonymous said...

kia ora Marty

I would prefer moderation off and then deletion of more "over the top" comments.

Some of the questions and comments are pretty genuine even if extreme. Anon 13 went to far... anyhow

My HAT question would be to each of the Representatives - and it would be

how will they achieve a level of accountability to our people that would provide us the confidence that TRONT and our PR will deliver "for us and our children after us"?

For me there is a bit much "me and now" coming from the iwi. Too few like Bill Solomon and Aunty Jane and others too numerous to mention and the countless volunteers on our marae and too many who care more about the meeting fees and their entitlements than service to our people.

The other question I might ask them is if they would be prepared to be TRONT Reps without re-muneration and meeting fees?

Marty Mars said...

Kia ora anon

wise words - and you are right about the moderation.

Anonymous said...

I hear the rumuneration for Representatives is about $30k plus travel and other expenses like phones and computers. In addition there are committees and other things which Represenatatives are paid for.

They do an important job - but for what motives if the cash is so good.

The average income for a member of Ngai Tahu Whanui is less than that.

Almost all have other jobs - some contribute to their Runanga and others don't - am wondering if all this is equitable.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for this opportunity.
Q 1. Why isn't Terry Ryan still not in charge of the whakapapa unit.

q. Why were so many of us left off the whakapapa lists of Kati Wae Wae, when up until this year we were all registered?

There was NEVER any of this problem when Terry was alive.

Thank you

Anonymous said...

Sorry I meant when Terry was in CHARGE - Arohamai

Anonymous said...

Kia ora anon (whakapapa)

The underlying questions of membership of Papatipu Runanga by way of whakapapa are interesting ones. The fact that Waewae does not choose to recognise so many should be taken up with them. I am surprised so many from Tuahiwi etc did have not objected. Maybe now the elections are over??

Terry still holds a senior role in the Whakapapa Unit - we all remember who persecuted him a few years ago. I understand he now feels he is being treated well and I know all staff in the unit defer to him.

Anonymous said...

Who and Where IS our Cheif???

Terry ryan should know this?

Ta Tipene might know?

Our current Kaiwhakahiding dreads the answer to this!

Anonymous said...

Perhaps the better question is whether the Kaiwhakahaere should be appointed by the Representatives or by the people?

Should it be by popular vote or strictly on merit?

Chiefs? Ngai Tahu moved away from that about 7 generations back after those claiming to be chiefs took the $$ for themselves and sold the rest down the river.

Anonymous said...

If that be the case that chiefs went out 7 generations ago.
Then why are cloaks worn today? Why do people get Moko? Why have photos of our past chiefs on display?
Why do you have a Whakapapa unit or even have any maori history on display?

If Ngai Tahu has moved away from our past chiefs and ancestors ways..
You might aswell have a bonfire and burn everything that Ngai Tahu stands for if the past is so meaningless.

Congradulations on your pure insult
to those of the past.

Its more of a case in 2009 that we are now being sold down the river by a so called wana be chief.

Anonymous said...

Did not mean to imply Ngai Tahu have no leaders then and now. We have had some very fine leaders over time and we do now. Just not self pre-claimed on the basis of bloodlines and gender.

Some of the finest of our leaders have no need of cloaks or moko and some wear those with humility and pride which I share.

My objections to talking of Chiefs is the archaic notions of leadership which are not based on merit or whether the people see those folks as "chiefs".

Most importantly, what do we see when we look at our "Representatives" - do we see inspirational leadership drive and committment to the iwi - or a bunch of greedy folks who would not take up the role unless they were getting much more than the average annual income of most members of the iwi?

We have heaps of folks down at our runanga level achieving so much more for us is my experience and I am wondering how we honour those people rather than discussing if they are "chiefs".

Anonymous said...

The concept of cheiftainship and lineage was what most maori tribes held in high regard.Wars were fought over it ,peace could be brougtht through inter marriage , and generations of raruraru have evolved over insult .

Some tribes today recognise these aspects ,i.e maori king for tainui lets say.Tanui move as one.Their king acts like someone of nobility ,and a level of civil and honourable interaction is displayed.People have some sense of comfort knowing their tribe is in good hands and are proud to belong.

Others tribes quickly forget their own tikanga and traditional ways for conveniece or individual benifit.Chosing to drop those
"token" and "old" ways suits themselves , until a media moment arrives.Then bring out the cloaks...

So short is the modern mind.Last week never matters,todays so important for the me me me types of this time , and the future most are too blind to see.

It was only a question "who is our cheif"

Do Upoko of marae mean nothing as well? Or the women who karanga guests onto the Marae?

Some modern maori need to look in the mirror.Take a long look at your ancestors running in your blood .Having a selective memory is one thing,but to have and live by a selective history and tradition is absurd.

And this talk of people and their merits.2009. A 52 million,sorry 65 million dollar blinged up fortress for the fatcats that the people were not really consulted about on , spending 1/12th of the tribes wealth in a recession . Then sacking of a prominent businessman whos really good at winning awards and wisely making money.

The media circus of Ngai tahu cat fighting.

And these are just some of the polite items of intreast.

Time for changing of the guard no matter what.There is no need for talking, just quite a few sackings.

Anonymous said...

Anon - changing the guard..

Wise words - Your right, time for the modern maori to to take a step back and look at their reflections.

Enough years of media self promoting for certain individuals.

Maybe they should all read some history books and get in touch with the real world of Maori.

We should have unity in Ngai Tahu not division of our people.

Time to make it right.

Anonymous said...

"Time to make it right" what are the steps that need to be taken? Should those steps be outlined at the Hui A Tau?

Anonymous said...

Can someone please ask - what the Ngai Tahu position is on ETS - let's see what they say. This is a question for Anake - plus Sacha McMeeking may be brilliant as per BB/ Raw Prawn site. I think Sacha is too young to be promoting Ngai Tahu's position on a kaupapa that hasn't had the consultation with the people.

Anonymous said...

the position of ngai tahu on this one aspect of ETS?

perhaps it would be the same as for the promises made on land sales and foreshore and seabead and on SILNA lands - the Crown should not rip us off by asking us to PAY full value to the Crown to purchase lands when the Crown knew that it was likely that the price we were paying was too high and when they had promised to tell us of anything which might affect the lands

so what would we consult on - do we like to be ripped off or not?

or - do we want the Crown to honour the terms of the settlement or not?

or - do we want the Crown to put right what the breach of the settlement?

another question might be is what age should we set for folks to contribute to the iwi in a positive way - and is it age alone or should we look at ability

to quote from Tipene - some folks beome old and wise and some just become old - why would we knock one of our own because they got to wise before old?

Anonymous said...

my hui a tau question would be to ask what the Represemtatives are doing to reduce their costs and whether they think that taking more than the average wage of a member of the whanui for at most 35days mahi is reasonable?

Anonymous said...

I was there today, I want to ask why so few of our Reprentatives stayed for the day>

After all I had to pay to get there and for my own accomodation and so on. The rest of us paid for them to get here and to stay in flash hotels etc.

Those that stayed after lunch - Mark, Matapura, Stewart, Gerry and Tim were the only ones I saw later in the day.

Yes it was cold and breezy but the kai was fantastic as was the Q&A in the tent. And those of us who paid our own way did not have a rental car to take back to the motel and to town kai and liquor etc What an insult to both the hau kainga and to the rest of us.

Anonymous said...

Kei te mihi atu kia koe anon 17 mo to tuatoko ki te hui a tau.

Thank you for your update. Your comments are so typical of what we are having to endure with regard to the blatant abuse of power by some of our so called representatives.

When you think that delegates are on approximately $850 per day attendance fee plus expenses that is absolutely disgraceful. (I calculated $30,000 divided by approx 35 meeting days).

Arrogance to the T.

Keep warm - wish I was there.

Anonymous said...

Tena koutou e te whanau

When I went to our pre-TRONT hui I heard there was a paper to reduce the number of meetings per year and I thought - choice!!!

I don't know what the end conclusion was. Perhaps else someone knows?

The hui-a-tau faced some weather challenges - a fantastic powhiri on the Friday night was followed by gale force winds and rain for the first few hours on Saturday which meant that some of the less well secured tents collapses and the power had to be disconncted and so on.

TRONT staff and the home team did a fabulous job. Dangerous tents were dismantled and there was a breakfast that lasted until mid - morning. When it was all safe we had lunch and then the hui got underway. The hui had to be shortened but in some ways it was good there was less stalls. People stayed in the main tent longer listening to the korero.

The kai was brilliant and it would be a seriously fussy person who did not get a feed to delight and plenty of it.

So congratulations to Oraka Aparima, to the workers, to the Office and NTHC (what a delight to see kotahitanga in action with them all presenting and sitting up front together) and to the Representives who did turn up for more than a fleeting moment to support the kaupapa.

Anonymous said...

Congradulations on those at the Hui who accomodated and worked extremely hard for the event.

So what was actually achieved?
What accomplishments were made in rectifying our leadership?

No one seems to be speaking or updating anything..

Or is it a repeat of past events where the majority of the tribe knows nothing?

Marty Mars said...

Kia ora koutou

thank you for the updates anon, very much appreciated and i hope we get some more.

And thank you to all staff and runaka members who looked after everyone - you make us proud. And also thank you to everyone who attended especially those who paid for themselves.

I think we need to rethink Hui a Tau - what is the point of it?

If we want to bring people together there are better ways of doing it.

If we want an AGM there are better ways of doing it.

If we want to empower Papatipu Runaka there are better ways of doing it.

How many attended?

What do you think? - is it working or do we need to have a real think about what the purpose is and how we can best achieve that purpose for all iwi members?

Anonymous said...

kia ora Marty

I was told there were well over 600 at the powhiri which i could not get to on Friday night.

The program which would have taken place if not for the intervention of the weather covered a lot of stuff including 2025 and freshwater as well as the boring but necessary formalities about commercial things.

I think we can add to the hui a tau by having regional forums during the year and we should do this. We can to digital and print stuff but nothing beats meeting the whanau once a year to chew the fat in person.

Mark's speech was pretty good and it ought to be up on the website so those not there could hear it. He was advocating for more involvement by the Papatipu Runanga and the whanui

Even Tipene congratulated NTHC on holding firm in the economic storm. Losses to be sure but in the circumstance a fine effort.

Seeing NTHC, Mark and the Office speaking with one voice was a sign that we can work together and the unnecessary and artificial division in that area that have plagued us for over 10 years and that were getting worse under the previous NTHC chair are hopefully behind us.

so for those who were there - there were positive signs.

as to the politcal crap - it is up to us - hold our reps accountable and hold TR accountable and also the kaiwhakahaere whom ever he or she is

Marty Mars said...

It sounds awesome and i wish i was there. i read the program and visiting the important areas including Takitimu Mauka would have been great. When visiting whanau in Tuatapere i have always wanted to have a real good look around and to have someone knowledgeable showing the way - that would be great.

how about a week long festival with kapahaka and tours of the rohe and whakapapa talks. It could grow to be a massive event that everyone wants to get to. We could subsidise more people to go, so they don't have to use NT Fund $.
We could work with the local communities to develop a public day or something - we could build on the great work that has been done to date. kanohi ki te kanohi is the way to go. We must breathe the breath.

The purpose IMO is to bind us tighter together in kin bonds, in aroha and kotahitanga.

i've organised and managed conferences - imagine guest speakers, discussion of all of those areas raised here. Imagine 15,000 whanau, massed haka, massed displays, massed waiata. We could take some taonga to visit with us. It can be done if we want to go that way and i would like us to. We have been too splintered by other ways. Ma te kotahitanga e whai kaha ai tatou. In unity we have strength.

What do you think - am i going off down the wrong road with this?

Anonymous said...

Your ideas sound great Marty.

Someday that vision will come true.

As for now results of 600,to 700 turning up is an indicator of many things.

Most tribal members are just a membership no. to tront, who get dictated their involvement and dividens for being a member.

Such a trip is out of most tribal members means so close to xmas.

I think the notion of hui a tau needs serious rethinking. It should be first and only about tribal issues ,directions,and an opportunity to talk face to face with tront leaders and major players.

The separation of stalls and the "we are ngai tahu displays "should be a event,in its own right.Perhaps with a Te Wai Pounamu kapahaka event.

If we wanted the type of predertermined information release of previous hui , you might as well stay home and read a one eyed ngai tahu yearly report brochure.

A hui with only a couple of open floor discussion moments is silly.20 mins here and there for Grass Root ngai tahu to converse is an insult.The whole hui should be interactive involved discussion.Its a once a year event,the time spent should be better used instead of reps giving a bias review to appease those who attend.

You have some good ideas marty.Maybe at a proper hui people could have time to vent their views , and the wider voice of ngai tahu could help steer the future instead of Tront{18 reps and 450 staff and the 600-700 hundred who attend your average hui a tau.

Anonymous said...

kia ora all

I am enjoying this korero. There are two sides to the whanau having more time to ask questions. Having heard the same kinds of questions from the same whanau members year on year...

If the progame had been able to proceed as planned I think it was a quantum leap forward - the concept of wananga tents would have allowed the interaction we all crave.

Timing, that is about an AGM and maybe that part should be a one day hui in Christchurch to do that formal stuff and so those who care to ask questions on the Annual Report could get that fix.

Hosting a week long festival... huge burden on a runanga and indeed on whanau who would need to take time off work etc

Maybe a bi-annual one would work and maybe for four to five days not whole week and take in Waitangi Day so that at least three of the days are weekends and or a holliday?

Like you I would love to hear the stories of each region.

I know many runanga subsidise members to travel and I have also
heard that the staff bus was available to members of the whanui to travel on this year and that staff who turned down the bus had to pay to get there themselves.

To Anon 24 - if only the Reps were there being accountable for the whole hui - seems many saw this as being too much trouble.

Anonymous said...

Things I remember from the hui:

Representative introductions - 7 of them showed no respect - they just did not come - some have already been recently appointed or re-appointed. Most spoke well about the need for unity and to move on with administering our assets on behalf of us all and doing better with meeting the needs of the papatipu runanga and whanau.

If you were not at the hui you should ask your Representative why they could not make the tent on time or at all. Maybe they were off sightseeing in a rental car paid for by you or soaking up the flash accomodation they had also at your expense.

Mark led off with a speech questioning if the Charter needs a review and how is this to be done - well I think we know the answer it needs a review and one of the questions is the role of the Rep and Kaiwhahaere.

Anyways - lots of good questions and answers but the final act was Ta Tipene saying karakia - he bought a message from Aunty Ruahine who was not able to be there - we are to put aside silly personal and or other diffences and move on with the dream of a better Ngai Tahu

Anonymous said...

kia ora te whanau

here is some pics etc about the HAT 2009

I saw some misinformation on the Labour Party site. The main tent and the kai tent were always very secure. The next largest stall tent had not been as secured to the degree of those tents and one other mid size tent suffered the same fate. These did not survive the northwest gales and came down just before the southerly arrived with rain to compound the problems.

And those that stayed on site got a rolling breakfast to die for.

Anonymous said...

Kia ora Marty

Next time you come to the land of Oraka Aparima make contact. You never know what might be possible re being with us and getting to know our place.

Anonymous said...

Well what can one say of Ngai Tahu's mass of unity...
Wow just over 600 at the event of the year, thats fantastic for a tribe of over 40 thousand!
If that is a example of Unity, we should put our heads down in shame! As pointed out by Marty the average ngai tahu family doesn't have a chance of attending due to finances.
It is disgusting the lucrative payments being made to representatives for attendance of meetings.
And to anon 23rd nov, who commented on holding accountable TR, representatives and the Kaiwhakahaere whom ever he or she is? - (how can those you don't know be accountable?)
Thank you for confirming that the fable of the unseen family is actually true. What a lengend for the Ngai Tahu History books created by those at this time.
Marty your ideas on gathering our people together are fantastic. Others should take a leaf out of your page, you have compassion and truth to your words.
Your road sounds like the best to travel so far....

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know which Reps were absent for much of the hui and for the introductions and which Runaka they are supposed to represent.

There was a time when the used to take turms sit at the top table to support the Kaiwhakahaere and the CEO and could therefore answer questions etc

Anonymous said...

To anon 29

I know many Ngai Tahu folks who live within a stone's throw of Oraka who did not come and it is not a financial thing. Some of them are a bit whakama, some don't care to participate and so on. I agree there are many of the whanau who would come if a: they could afford to do so and or b: they saw the event as being more relevant.

I also know of many who do make the sacrifice and for whom this is part of the annual pilgramage to meet the other regulars. There is no one size fits all.

I also support Marty's whakaro. But at the end of the day it will be held somewhere in the takiwa and a fair number of the tribe will have the expense of travel and there is no way we could even begin to provide significant subsidies to all. Would only be a drop in the bucket.

But by all means we should argue for a change in fees for Reps - especially the ones who were MIA this year.