Thursday, February 4, 2010

Roarprawn scoop on FSSB negotiations

Busted Blonde has a scoop regarding the Foreshore and Seabed negotiations.

I agree that the UN declaration of indigenous Rights that this country still has not endorsed, should be one of the pillars of any negotiation. And i say that whoever wrote in red on the document gets my vote.

And i don't agree with BB when she says,
"As a nation we need not fear ownership of small bits of the Foreshore and Seabed by Maori - indeed we should embrace it. With rights come responsibilities.
Ummm not small bits- the whole lot that was taken!
"... this paper is a simplistic attempt to take more than can be morally justified but less than that which might be legally justified.
Take more than can be morally justified? WTF - if something is taken shouldn't it be given back - that is morally justified.

Go and have a read - all the documents are marked confidential and as usual BB gets a snide dig into one of our own.


Anonymous said...

Kia ora Marty

BB hardly has a scoop given that she got the info from another website. I don't disagree with the sentiments of the person with the red-lined comments however they are so out of touch with political reality. In case no-one has noticed, Parliament is not well disposed to recognising Maori rights in part let alone in full.

When they say "full and final settlement" the full does not mean Maori are restored to the full rights and interest they once had - they mean the .001 cent in the dollar is all you are going to get.

So the dilema is this - do we take the part and final settlement - or do we live with the nothing we have now?

The iwi leaders are testing the ground to see what is possible - then when we know that we will know how to answer the last question this time around.

Marty Mars said...

Kia ora anon

I was being a little generous but I couldn't find the docs on

You have highlighted the dilema well. As a discussion doc i think it is pretty good draft and you are correct we are not able to go back. The world is the way it is, and we are part of it. But we know right from wrong and I think we have to position from right.

I am not sure if incremental gains will do the job.

But that said we have to start somewhere and these docs are a good start.

Marty Mars said...

opps should have looked harder found the discussion doc now but not the marked up one

Anonymous said...

Tena koe Marty

The most disappointing aspect of all of this is the delight that some of our own take in tearing down their own iwi and individuals within it.

Anon 1 is right - we all know what Maori lost and none of us thought it would still happen in this century. When Labour denied Maori not only of their Article II rights in land but also their Article III rights to have access to the courts to have their case heard we as a collective could not believe it.

But it was and is real. And this government is not going to restore Maori to the position they were in prior to the law change. Full unfettered ownership by Maori over their own land and assets is just as much an anathema to the Crown and Pakeha now as it was when Mawhera lands were put into perpetual leases with peppercorn rentals in the 1860s or 70s.

The criticism of the iwi leaders group is old hat - the problem is how do Maori communicate with the Government if not via iwi leaders? What exactly are the alternatives?

And what is the point of demonising one individual from the technical working group? There is always someone left to write up the discussion at the end of a meeting. Same thing with Mark S - would BB be making the same criticism if the saintly Wally or the born again leader Tahu P was part of the iwi leaders group?

Marty Mars said...

I agree - it makes me physically sick to read some of the bile that is put up against someone who isn't in a position to defend themselves - that just shows what cowardly losers the attackers are IMO.

Our people being attacked by our people - i bet the racist scum who hate maori love that.

I'll come back to the other points when I've calmed down.

Marty Mars said...

Aroha mai anon@11.49

I just did it too... (facepalm)

Evelyn Cook said...

I assume that I am the 'cowardly loser', or at least one of them, to whom you have referred.

With respect, might I point out that I am the only person with the courage to use my own name. If that makes me a coward, we obviously have differing definitions of cowardice.

I would have more respect for the iwi forum and those who write papers such as that posted by BB if they were regularly, as in monthly, bi-monthly, even six monthly in effective consultation with those whose assets and property rights they purport to be discussing.

The presumption by both Government and iwi structures is that the takutai me te takere o te moana are 'owned' by the iwi as a whole. This is both presumptuous and an usurpation of the rights of whānau, especially those who still live by and off the moana. It is they who have maintained ahi kā for the hapū and the iwi, not the corporations and elected representatives, although some who have held elected status have also maintained ahi kā.

It is time that we had more robust debate about how our chosen representatives at local, iwi and national level get their mandate to purport to represent us on such contentious issues. I didn't take my voice to hui and to Parliament to support the position which it appears that our current leadership is discussing. When do we get our say? How do we get our say? Will our local representatives even be able to discuss it before the iwi forum and are staff have committed us to a position?

I don't believe that is should be fuel for any racist if we engage in robust debate about such important matters. Perhpas that makes me an idealist or a dreamer but I believe that I live in a democracy and that includes Ngāi Tahu matters.

BTW If the charge of cowardice is being levelled at BB, I refute that too as most know what her real identity is too.

Marty Mars said...

aroha mai evelyn

I did that which i was accusing others of doing, so in fact it is me who is the cowardly loser not anyone else. My own words have caught me out - aroha mai ano

Evelyn Cook said...

Aroha ki a koe hoki, Marty.

I realise that we may disagree but it is never pleasant to see an unreasonable response to what you may feel has been a perfectly politely phrased post.

I try to avoid unpleasant epithets directed at specific individuals or groups and appreciate it when I am treated similarly.

Likewise, I appreciate it when someone realises that they have breached their normal high standards and take responsibility and apologise. That is the sign of a true leader.

I hope normal service may now presume to be resumed? ;-)


Marty Mars said...

Thank you for your kindness - and yes normal service has resumed

Donna Solomon said...

Yes I agree Evelyn the true sign of a leader is one who apologizes.

Maybe you should tell that to Mark.

He owes my whanau lots of apologies for what he has done to us over all these years.

I heard that my father is dead and buried the other day. My dad is breathing quite well, just more wise words from his younger brother Mark.

He owes me an apology for not informing us that my grandmother died last year. They went ahead and buried her without us knowing.

Then went and told everyone we didn't want to go.

I was the one who had to tell my dad what they had done.

No daughter ever wants to be in that position.

He has shafted my family for years.

I am Donna Solomon, youngest daughter of his elder brother. Yes there is one.

They thought they could get away with extinguishing the existence of us. We are born who we are and no words can change that.

I'm back uncle and await your apology.

Anonymous said...

I have said this before - Solomon whanau go fix your raruraru in your own backyard not in the public forum, you takahia on all of us relations who are not involved in your internal issues. Whoever you are Donna Solomon, the people I know in your whanau and those that have passed like Becky and Bill would never stand for this nonsense. Me and my immediate whanau think Mark has done a good job.

Marty Mars said...

I have to agree with the last anon.

This is not the forum for deep personal whanau differences to be aired.

Please no more or i will start deleting.

Anonymous said...

Kia ora Marty

In the past you have, as have others, argued for more Ngai Tahu working for the iwi. Tina Nixon's persecution of Mark S and now of Sacha McMeeking should be all the proof you need to have to show how unsafe it is for our own to work for us.

Mark is a politician and so I have less sympathy for him but the unfounded slurs against our brightest and best are heartbreaking. Who will be next?

I also see there are allegations that Sacha is unworthy to represent us because she is educated? WTF!!! surely one of the aspirations of our iwi is to raise the level of education that our people attain.

All I can say is that Sacha must be pretty damn good if she has come to the attention of detractors of the ilk of Tina and Matthew Hooton. Some of the others are just on the "me too" bandwagon but they still seem to care not who they hurt.

Marty Mars said...

kia ora anon

yes it is absolutly heartbreaking to see the way sasha is being attacked.

And it does raise concerns for any of our people who may want to contribute to the success of our iwi.

"A success building performance worries the weak and inspires the strong."

Donna said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Alright for the Kaiwakahaere to publicly slaughter people in the Media.

Two lots of standards.


Marty Mars said...

Kia ora donna

I don't want to delete comments but i am not letting this blog turn into a fighting pit.

I would like to hear your solutions (apart from smacking you-know-who in the head) - how can we actually get on with the job? What ideas do you have? Please consider these questions because I really want to hear from wahine toa like yourself

Donna said...

Sorry Marty..

Won't happen again....
I've decided to continue walking alone..I know who I am and that is enough for me.