Wednesday, January 27, 2010

kaiwhakahaere - the role

The role of kaiwhakahaere has been debated at the table. The subject has also been discussed here with some very interesting comments.

I'd like to talk about the role without getting into personalities.

The role originally was some sort of chairperson but the reality is that the role is a lot more than that. For instance the kaiwhakahaere is the public face of the iwi – they front the media, the hui, the issues, on behalf of the iwi. The role is an iwi role and that is why I think we should consider electing a non-TRONT representative to the role.

The role of the TRONT rep is to represent their runaka at the table and also to collectivelly govern the protect the wider iwi interests. The role of the kaiwhakahaere is to represent the iwi. Currently the 18 Papatipu Runaka Te Runanga o Ngai Tahu representatives elect the kaiwhakahaere from amoungst their number. I am not sure, but i would imagine, that fufilling the role of runaka rep and kaiwhakahaere at the same time, may be too much for one person.

I don't think we would create some type of 'super-leader' who is above the iwi and does what they want – there are too many checks and balances and too many eyes watching for that to happen. What we would create is the description of a role and the personal qualities needed and then we would select the best candidate for that role. And by we I mean all the iwi. If the role is considered an iwi role then the iwi should determine who the successful candidate is. Imagine the candidates, or their proposers, putting forward their case. We would get some fantastic korero and discussion of issues – there would be no secrets or hidden agendas – because the words would be known.

Yes there would be issues – costs for instance, campaigns, lobbying, moneyed influencers, communication and so on but the role was developed to fit a pakeha paradigm and it is only just over 10 years old. It is time to have a good look at it, a least to investigate options.

The role is arguably the most important in the iwi. We have to have the very best person from our iwi to be in that role and i think we need to look wider than our reps.

Comments – I have a problem when others (who are not position holders) are named, especially family members. The only other issue for me is if I think the comment is or could potenially be legally dodgy.

43 comments:

Anonymous said...

Here here..

The face of the Kaiwhakahaere should be separate from Tront reps.
It should be a person of morals and values who is there for the iwi, not based on glory of sitting in that position.

The amount of public display of in house fighting, email abuse along with media slagging off over the past years is an example that things really need to be evaluated and what the position entails.

Our tribe needs a person with mana, and the only agenda is to stand with pride in representation of all iwi.
It is quite evident by past events that these positions should be kept separate..Most importantly iwi should have the freedom of choice too who they want that face to be. Without a doubt amongst our iwi is a person who we can all be proud to have as our face of Ngai Tahu.

Time for Ngai Tahu to shine..

Out with the old and in with the new..

Truth love light

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

There should be no election for this position. The North Island didn't let the iwi vote for the King. He was born to be it. Ngai Tahu maybe should follow their protocol and do it right.

Present Kaiwakahaere was not born for this position. He claimed it.

Rehua said...

How are you saying the current Kaiwhakahaere "claimed it". Obviously you weren't around at the time of the decision at the table.

I wonder why you deleted two comments Marty? I read them before they were deleted and see no difference to the comments from Truth love light except that he didn't mention names. Is that what should happen? abuse but just don't use names.

Anonymous said...

He did claim it through lies and deceit to get his butt there. Those at the table were obviously oblivious to the truth and how he come to be there. Sitting at a table means nothing. Anyone can sit and lie and those who sit and choose to believe them is your free will and choice.
Look where the wonderful table of elite has got Ngai Tahu. You all made it a laughing stock.

Your don't like protocol as it would mean change and things done correctly.

If he had pulled what he done a hundred years ago he'd be speared to a tree.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like Rehua doesn't want change. I hear a negative tone to his words.

Guess following Protocol is not a liked word.

Hmmm or is it the fact that they don't want the rest of the Iwi's imput. Losing the reins of control seems to put the fear into some at the holy table of lords...

Hail to those who rein our tribe of embarassment.. shall we drop to our knees and worship you for the public disgrace which the country has viewed through media over these past years.

Hail oh holy master kaiwhakahaere!

Anonymous said...

Correction Rehua,

I stated what everyone else sees. Merely stating the clown show the country has watched.

The Kaiwhakahaere is the professional abuser. OOps should be careful I might get a nasty email from him.

Truth love light -(is a female)

Marty Mars said...

Kia ora koutou


i've been away for a few days camping up the top of pikikirunga so I asked a Ngai Tahu person who i respect to moderate any comments - I haven't read the ones deleted but have got the gist and I want to thank the guest administrator for their judgement.

What about the kaiwhakahaere role itself - is it set up correctly? Wouldn't someone sitting above the reps, independent :), and able to see the wider horizon, be the way to go.

A commenter raised a very good point about being 'born to it' - isn't that our traditional way? Does the role itself allow that to work - even if we wanted it to, and would we want it to?

I'd like to know what you think of these things.

Anonymous said...

We are a tribe with a vast geographical spread. We operate on a council model where we have elected representatives who theoretically bring issues to the table and take issues from the table. The kaiwhakahaere is there to lead this bunch. When you consider the history, geography and culture the position is virtually impossible to manage. Whovere sits in the role will be harpooned. Therefore it is obvious the role is flawed. So are the people-but that is another story and probably for another blog.

What we need is a bit of honesty. We have been smart enough to put highly skilled non-ngai tahu directors to make our company successful but that is based on proven leadership. We should think about the same model for the rest of ngai tahu.

We are one of the larger employers in the South Island, we hold many resources and knowledge yet we entrust the leadership position of Kaiwhakahaere to people who would struggle to run a bath.

We need to seperate the position from TRONT and seek the best Ngai Tahu person available.Otherwise those who are elected as TRONT reps can use that as a backdoor to the top job.

Anonymous said...

Traditional ways.. it is bemusing how Maori of today choose to select only a portion of tradition.

Your from hundred of years of whakapapa yet wipe tradition and protocol.

I dare all those who want to vote for the position the white mans way or those who just want a existing buddie to sit in this position to tell the King of the North his lot have got it screwed up just putting him there because he was born into it.

I suggest alot of you Ngai Tahu bigwigs controlling everything need to go and read some of your history. If you can't understand how it works, I;ll happily draw some kindergarden pictures for you so you might get it...

At the end of the day its called free will and choice. If you all want to piss on your whakapapa and ancestors, tradition, protocol, mana and hundreds of years of history. So be it. We all create our own existence and we all answer sooner or later to what choices we make.

Anonymous said...

I think you will find the kingitanga is not pre-european. It was in direct opposition to those who saw the King as all powerful in England. We in the South saw through this shambles and have never followed the kingitanga movement and of course the resulting Maori King. King of what? We have always been tribal and we don't need a phoney North Island style King to unite us. Go back to King Arthur and your comics. We are talking about a Kaiwhakahaere position that is new and does not work. Leave the North Island practices to those in the North they are hardly our guiding light.

Rehua said...

Prior to Mark becoming the Kaiwhakahaere there was intense discussion to have an ambassador type role by selecting an Upoko Ariki by way of whakapapa and Rangatira status, this option was not progressed by the table.

There would probably be a six or seven current delegates at the TRONT table who were involved with Ngai Tahu at the time.

The decision was made for the Kaiwhakahaere position to have a specific role and speak on behalf of the table.

Democratically that is the way it has remained. When the time comes for change or the status quo remains and once consultation by the delegates with their constituents at the runanga level is worked through (provided that does happen) and so in a sense the iwi will speak. We can only hope that due consideration, dignity and transparency will prevail.

Anonymous said...

anon 7.16pm.. Look at the current state of affairs..Your present Kaiwhakahaere has caused nothing but shambles..Look at the shambles he personally created at Takahanga.
He managed to rip everybit of unity in the whanau to pieces through his actions,words and behaviour.

A GREAT GUIDING LIGHT AND EXAMPLE OF OUR KAIWHAKAHAERE.

Actions speak louder than words. Does anyone question why whale watch holds powhiri's at the winery? And not the Marae.

WHY WHY WHY. All the guiding light and effort of MARK.

You think this man is the face of Ngai Tahu.

Goes to show their are some really mentally challenged brains at the table if you support his behaviour and example.

Marty Mars said...
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Marty Mars said...

jeepers had to delete my own comment!!! :)

@anon 7.13am

Yes the kaiwhakahaere is the public face of the iwi - that is the role.
Yes the kaiwhakahaere is selected by the 18 papatipu runaka reps - that is the system.
Yes no one is perfect and everyone has their good and bad points - that is life.
We are where we are - we can learn and understand how we got to here, and use that to move forward to where we want to get to.

Where do you want Ngai Tahu to get to, in terms of the role of kaiwhakahaere? We know your feelings about the current holder, so no need to go over that again.

Anonymous said...

Here here Marty..

We should not be where we are at this point in time.



Our ancestors ways have gone astray
The new of today are just empty displays
History speaks for itself
Ngai Tahu is just a ball of wealth
Gone is our mana and pride
The table is destroying our tribe
Modern maori its time to go
The face is the blood that flows...

Anonymous said...

Put your chief there. Isn't that the face of your people?

Anonymous said...

Hey Marty,

anon 7.13

The future for Ngai Tahu as I see it is not going anywhere. Until things are put right.

I have numerous ideas of where I'd like to see where the tribe should be.

A main factor would be repairing and making our iwi feel welcome for a start. Across the board there are thousands who don't even attend their maraes.
Everyone seems to have lost focus of the importance of unity and whanau. Too many greedy buggers wanting power.

I have learnt from past experience that its so easy for others to take ideas and plans and make them their own.

There will be a time where my views will be heard in person.

Anonymous said...

there are two issues - what is the role of the kaiwhakahaere and how do we find someone to fill the role?

like it or not TRONT is a creation of the iwi after lengthy debate and consultation. not saying it is not up for new debate, but we have got what we agreed to at the time.

so what does TRONT do? looks after our assets and does the distribution thing as well as representing us to protect our rights and interests. so the Kaiwhakahaere as Chair of the table has to lead that.

the tribe is worth 600mil and growing and has handed out nearly the full value of the settlement by way of distribution since 1998. they have protected the boundary and got concessions on ETS and we are involed in local and national political issue in a pretty postive way. so at one level the system works and we are doing ok under the incumbent Kaiwhakahaere.

one day he will be replaced and that leads into how the Kaiwhakahaere is selected. first the runanga selects them, then the fellow representatives pick one of their own with an utterly indefensible self serving non transparent process.

according to a paper on the Tahu Potki website, there was a suggestion that this process should be expanded to allow the members of TRONT (the runanga) to be part of the process and that the process should be transparent.

i heard that the paper was set aside. some say it was to allow for more consultation and others think it is becasue the current reps like the non-accountable and secret process that they bought in when they were trying to oust the current Kaiwhakahaere.

either way, the key fault in the system is the lack of quality control when appointing representatives in the first place. most have no idea how to be trustees let alone how to distinguish management and governance issues. some have dubious pasts and some sought appointment to do mischief. most care more about their own fees and perks than almost anything else.

hours are spent arguing over the most trivial matters and minutes on strategic goals and matters of real importance. many of the representatives are not up to that role let alone that of Kaiwhakahaere.

in my view, if we sorted out the appointment process to get quality people at the TRONT table and allowed the process to be more open and democratic then we should end up with a reasonable chance that the Kaiwhakahaere would also be able to be seen as our tribal leader.

Anonymous said...

Absolutely agree with comments of Rehua and Feb 5 12.38.

They are fair, reasonable, considered, factual and with no other agenda than what is best for Ngai Tahu iwi.

I have to say that I don't see anyone currently at the tasble that could lead Ngai Tahu on the Local, National and International forums as the current Kaiwhakahaere.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Oh and news flash it is well known that on alot of these sites.

The kaiwhakahaere is a anon blogger promoting himself.


How much lower can he go?

Anonymous said...

To put things into simple terms for the challenged and confused,John key isnt playing god with nz .

To this day, bills or amendments to acts have to be discussed before whatever the appropriate committee is before major decisions are made.

Why is it that in the Ngai tahu corporate structure that individuals are left unchecked on policy making or major decisions,and very rarely seek tribal approval for matters of great signifigance.Let alone inform the other 17 tront reps of their one man gang glory crusades of self promotion.

Ngai tahu is 44000 roughly!
Not one and 17 ,and the followers.

Kaiwhakahaere the role?

Should be everything the current one is not.

Anonymous said...

Stil nothing from Mark and takahanga and its current occupiers on elections.

Why ?

Because they havent even started them.

Im from that marae.Not one bit of correspondence to this marae member yet.

As a member who knows a little on tikanga, i ask that our runanga be excused from the up coming tront kaiwhakahaere election.

I state clearly that our current member should be removed immediately.

As a marae we have had two chances to hold a simple election.To all our relatives i apologise for the insult .It is not acceptable and our removal from the tront board till such time that a legitamte election occurs will not be seen as offensive.

The elections should continue without us as it is takahanga that has let you all down with what we put before you , and now with the issue of its removal.

kia ora

Anonymous said...

to anon 3.16pm

so the kaiwhakahaere blogs under anon does he - where is your proof? it is just more words without foundation. what have you personally done in the open?

to anon 4.04pm

funny thing is that the even the john key type utopia has about the same amount of input of ordinary folk as the TRONT system.

truth is our folks hardly ever bother to participate in a positive way - there are the same old critics who try to tear down the status quo but never provide solutions

so blog on about what is wrong or come along and tell us what you are personally doing to make it better.

Anonymous said...

Anon - 3.16pm

Thank you for the invitation my beloved lost relation.

See you real soon and I hope you welcome me with arms open, the loving person you are.

You know where I live, so feel free to come and have a cuppa tea and lets talk Ngai Tahu.

If you have the gaul..LOL..doubt it.

Anonymous said...

Correction - the last comment was for anon feb 7 - 9.30pm..

The jug is on....................

Anonymous said...

TICK TOCK ,TICK TOCK , TIMES UP...

Not one for cuppas with those who sell there souls...

We will meet when we are meant to.

Better buy some earplugs ,cause the fat ladys going to be giving her greatest performance...

Went to help a fox who acted wounded.She used you,you's used her to get pathetic vengence , and i puppeteered the lot , out of a bad situation.Its just about cold enough.

Thankyou so much for following the breadcrumbs.You all were allways such greedy individuals...

The best is yet to come...

All my love big man ...

Anonymous said...

I would like to see many faces representing our iwi - I think we have some highly skilled leaders across the Ngai Tahu takiwa, and those with the right skills should front each kaupapa...not just the one face. Leave the kaiwhakahaere role to chair the TRoNT meetings...and lets work collectively to ensure that our iwi is best represented in each forum.

Aside from all this discussion on who should be the ariki, upoko, rakatira etc, in todays world there is a natural process when it comes to leadership, mana etc...one that cant be voted solely on whakapapa. Natural leaders simply emmerge by showing leadership and their actions speak volumes! Already external iwi acknowledge one of our greatest leaders, someone who has built a reputation of trust, mana, respect - none other than Tipene O'Regan...whether you like it or not, when he is present you will always hear the accolades of other iwi leaders flowing straight to him, it cant be helped - he was a great leader when our iwi needed it...and he bowed out gracefully from the tribal political table when his job was done. There are many other natural leaders who hold the respect of their hapu, whanau and this filters through to the iwi level...Jane Davis, Ranui Ngarimu, Wally Stone to name a small few. Some love em, some dont... There will always be deviants and self-important twats, ones that swing their tokotoko's about aimlessly while reciting well rehearsed tauparapara but lack real substance in the body of their kōrero, born-again Maori's, ngā Hone-nō-naianei (Johnny come lately's, moaning Myrtles, the pain in the butts...and bloggers but they all keep us in check (and waste a few hours of our lives that we'll never ever get back at most hui and meetings!)but hopefully there's a majority of rational sensible whanau to keep us heading in the right direction!
Anyhow, thats my ten cents worth...
Nahaku noa,
Na Rawemākoi

Anonymous said...

These pointless discussions never end.
How many years has the current kaiwhakahaere been slammed for his ethics and mana.

Nothing ever changes. Ngai tahu only look after the chosen.

I'm a ngai tahu member who is going to un register. I still don't get any correspondence from our marae and Ngai tahu.

I've phoned and checked my details yet still nothing after 15 years.

Guess I'm not a important iwi member.

So farewell my shameful tribe. No wonder so many have walked..

Marty Mars said...

Kia ora anon@10.50

no point attacking yourself - you are not to blame and therefore there is no point cutting off your own head - keep your head up and intact and let's keep working to make it better e hoa.

Anonymous said...

The quality of the korero (or lack of it) from the same old same old who take every opportunity to air the contents of their nasty little minds about the current Kaiwhakahaere is counter-productive to their cause.

It only serves to tell those of us who are independent observers that such people with their negative, destructive and self-serving agenda which they keep on spewing out are demonstrating their lack of a balanced and fair minded point of view.

Therefore, because of this constantly paraded lack of judgement anyone they DON'T like has got to be good?

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon 11.57.

If it wasn't for the actions of the current Kaiwhakahaere. There would be nothing to say.

Alot of Ngai Tahu and New Zealanders are discraced at such behaviour of the current position holder.

A person in such a respected position should behave in a manner that serves the iwi.

IE. Nasty abusive emails, Wally Stone episode. In house fighting. All aired through the media. I dare say people only comment on what has been seen over past years.

All individuals have freedom of choice to have a view and opinion.

Some have good to say and some have bad. Just because you don't like what you hear does not put you in no position to trash anothers thoughts.

If he was doing a glorious job then why do so many from across the country want him gone?????

Would you like me to play a violin for you..

Your whole statement represents nothing but bitterness which resides within yourself.

Maybe you should work on getting rid of it as it will eat at you away slowly but surley.

Good luck with that and blessings to you.

Anonymous said...

Dear Anon 5 Mar 7.39

I rest my case.

Couldn't have illustrated my point better than you have by the tone and content of your answer.

Yes people are allowed their own OPINIONS. And they can have opinions on the FACTS. But to represent OPINIONS AS FACTS does not make them TRUE (WHO dragged everything through the media???? WHEN did the Kaiwhakahaera get to be so powerful that his ONE vote overcame everyone elses whenever something is decided that his opponents don't agree with? e.g. Wally Stone)

There are always people whose style, manner, personality, religion, attitude etc. etc. we don't like, and if someone feels that way about Mark Solomon then that is what they feel. There are certainly a huge number of people (Ngai Tahu and other NZers) who feel he does a good job and represents Ngai Tahu well. They too are entitled to have their views respected.

Don't worry about my "bitterness" - there is none in MY korero!!

I am just sad that people have to bring their own personality politics into the genuine efforts of people like Marty to discuss important things like the ROLE of the Kaiwhakahaere and how one is selected/appointed etc. in the future.

The people who are so convinced that such a "bad" person has the role now, could direct positive efforts towards developing solutions for the future to avoid such "bad" people succeeding to the role of Kaiwhakahaere - instead of bringing in personality based opinions that won't change anything in either the present OR the future.

Kio ora - Anon 11.57

Anonymous said...

Anon 1.16pm.

Well spoken words, I agree Mark has done a wonderful job.

He is a true man of mana,unity and has done so much for our iwi.

His love and compassion for his people is astounding. The bond he has with his elder brother, nieces and nephews goes beyond words.

A man with so much love for his own is a great leader for our iwi.

Maybe he should get his immediate family to do a article with him and photo to show iwi what its all about.

What do you think Mark?

Anonymous said...

Anon 1.16pm.

Silence from you???? I think the last anons comment is fabulous.

Nothing like unity of whanau.

Why would you not respond to such a great idea?

A photo. Why is it the Kaiwhakahaere has never been seen with his immediate family in all these years??

Lots of people are asking.

The picture really doesn't add up.

Can you help with this question anon 1.16pm?

Anonymous said...

Why would Mark want to put his family's necks on the line. I'm positive his kids and wife would do it in a heart beat if he asked them. But he would never ask them. Look at the abuse that his brother and sister have faced, or for that matter anyone who says they like Mark.

We have a comment raised about Ngati Kuri not writing on this sight and blaming Mark for Whale Watch not using the Marae. As a Ngati Kuri person lets look at this. Thomas Kahu lost his position as chairperson of the Runanga because of his and his families arrogance deception and hostility at a meeting of the Runanga who witnessing his behaviour put in a vote of no confidence in him. At this meeting his brother stated that there would be no more money going from Whale Watch to the Marae, which they have honored.

Three of the trustees of Whale Watch are Thomas, his brother and his father. Lot of pull guys. Let's not blame Mark for your thirst for power.


As for the position of Kaiwhakahaere. I kind of like the idea of the position being one that is voted on by the people and not the table. This would also give us 19 people on the table thereby eliminating the split vote.

I also think that if we are going to do this then we also need to eliminate the in committee voting. Discussions could be held in committee but the way people vote needs to be recorded so that members are answerable to their runanga for the way they vote.

I realise that this blog is about the kaiwhakahaere role, but a person is only as good as those that are supporting them and in my view the board needs to be responsible for their actions just as surely as Mark does, because it wasn't Mark that was part of the deliberate smear campaign against him.
Mark is just the voice and face of the board. He can't cast their votes for them. Why make him responsible for their actions.

Also you talk about a whakapapa right to lead the iwi, as in the kingitanga. I think you'd find that Mark does hold this whakapapa line, especially when you look at past leaders of the tribe and their relationship to Mark. Or are these leaders also being disputed now?

Sorry about the late response, but I didn't know the site existed and found it surfing the net.

Anonymous said...

Last anon.

Mark and whakapapa line.
He abused his elder brother to sit there.

Yes there is higher than him. He can bleat what he wants but the truth of how he got there is being spoken about throughout new zealand as I type.

May take along time but the truth always arrives.

Anonymous said...

To the person who made the second to last comment before this one. I don't know who you are but your facts are wrong. Thomas brother (as you say) did not say that Whale Watch would stop funding the marae and that is one topic that will never stop but eveyone has to remember we have just came out of a recession so dividends and funds were put on hold until the economy is right again.......not because three of the trustees were at the meeting NOT EVEN THEY HAVE THAT POWER!
Now back to the kaiwhakahaere role, I believe that it should be seperate from the table, it should be a contract of service to be the face of the corporate. So simply it would be Mark's role he is doing now but without the TRoNT table.
I do not see and have never seen Mark as the leader of the tribe, he is the Chairman of The Tront table nothing more. he is a great Kaiwhakahaere but I could question his role as representative.

Marty Mars said...

Kia ora last anon

It is a very interesting point about actual verses percieved leadership. The role of kaiwhakahaere means that the person in that role is seen as the leader of the tribe - from the outside and the inside. Yet the power and mana rest with kaumatua, with whanau and hapu - by a runanga representative voting for a person to take the kaiwhakahaere role and mana they are effectively giving some of the mana to that person.

The election of our kaiwhakahaere will occur soon and I think it would be naive to expect the 'collective' to have just sat there doing nothing since they poked their heads up.

Hayley Henry said...

At the moment I am studying te reo maori level 4 and looking at the role of kaiwhakahaere. I could not get much of the jist but from what it seems with the opinion of individuals, what makes us all uniquely different from each iwi is our own variant styles on the way we do tikanga.... We shouldn't really be bickering against each other...look where that got us in the past.. NO WHERE! And it is not up to us to try and fix others problems UNLESS THEY WANT IT! We keep forgetting that we tend to focus on the works/failings of others and not focus on ourselves. Do we ask others to nit pick at ALL OF OUR failings. KAORE! Most of us are too proud.But it gives us the knowledge and humility to voercome those mistakes and not repeat them again. That goes same to the iwi who are looking at their kaiwhakahaere...If they can see the mistake of what has happened well then they know next time that this person did this but fixed the problem like that.... did it benefit the people in the end? I'm over this north and south battle. South should stick to the south because thats what makes them unique and north do the same. Even if it is vastly different isn't the outcome meant to be the same. Also alot of iwi always go back to the original teachings of THEIR tipuna. Not north's, not english but to theirs. What a most enlightening korerorero I have read from this. I hope people realise that their bigger picture fit in with a combination of traditional tikanga and modern day society evolves alot of things naturally it is up to us to utilise in a POSITIVE WAY..... kia ora.

No Ngati Kahungunu ahau

Marty Mars said...

Kia ora Hayley,

Good comment and you are correct - no use fighting amongst ourselves when there is so much to do to help the people. Kia kaha!